Talk About This!

Madame M,

While I feel we are missing out on a range of juicy topics—like the Indiana law—there is obviously more to be said on this one.  To wit:

I agree that certain positions of trust can carry with them additional expectations.  Transgression of those expectations should, I feel strongly, be addressed with administrative or societal prescriptions, not criminal ones.

While I have emphasized females a bit more, partly because that was the younger individual in the example originally cited and partly because that’s what society in general winds up more about, I’m not sure I made any such assumption on your part.  But perception is 9/10ths of the, er, blog, so okay! :)

Just because someone may be relationship disadvantaged vis a vis an older individual, are you saying that rises to the level of criminality?  I don’t think you are, and so we may be arguing degrees of difference, rather than areas.

No one feels primal biological urges to enter into a legal contract about buying something, etc.  The justifiable laws for protecting minors by prohibiting their entering into binding legal contracts is to ensure that their lack of knowledge and experience—and their usual lack of resources and skill options as well—do not ruin them financially or unduly burden them economically or legally for much of their lives.  Indentured servitude and child labor exploitation are at least two things that can be avoided by prohibiting contracts before adulthood. 

Sex—with the possible exception of the remunerative kind—creates no contract or binding obligation, assuming pregnancy or other complication is avoided.  It would seem that suitable comparisons between sex and contracts could be somewhat problematic.

Romantic obsession is a phenomenon that knows no age boundaries—and has frequent pitfalls no matter what the ages of the duo, trio, whatever.  The disruption to the individuals that occurs often seems punishment enough without even administrative or societal sanctions, let alone criminal ones.  Would the case of the 28 year old teacher and 11 year old student rise to criminality?  Don’t know.  That would be for a psychologist to determine whether coercion had in reality been involved, but it doesn’t sound like it.  Of course, the teacher could use some administrative re-direction at the very least.  And both the 28 year old and 11 year old need some education and training—including watching the Potsie and Joanie episode from “Happy Days.”

You say I have emphasized females too much as being the younger person in these cases.  Yet picking out the exceptions to the general pattern and presenting those as evidence of equivalency will not satisfy necessary statistical standards of data or evidence.   I do readily agree however that older women can both desire to be and actually be sexual with younger males.  And become just as absurdly criminalized as males have been.

The societal assertion that young consenting males can become “victimized” by  older women having sex with them is, if anything, even more absurd than it is for young consenting females and older men.  Such views contribute to victim mentalities, to further delays in maturity, to evil-izing of sex—and the ruination of lives.

If you feel that I haven’t addressed age well enough, then I am doing a poor job of stating my position clearly, for I thought I had.  I have also sought to show strongly that there is a compelling need to distinguish between criminality and administrative/societal sanctions.  To recap:

For criminality determinations, stated consent should be normally accepted.  However, fair and equitable safeguards should exist to give a boost to justice where appropriate.  Therefore, if there is reason to believe that the stated consent is false, that it is in reality coercion being masked due to fear, trauma, or excessive overconcern for the plight of the offender, a professional examination and determination would be in order.

For criminality determinations, puberty should be the norm for distinguishing between sexual relations and molestation.

Education can be of benefit to young ladies and young men concerning consenting sexual relations in general and with older individuals in particular.  Yet biology is a powerful force (as nature intends it to be), and while education can hopefully improve the patterns of optimal behavior, there are going to be frequent sub-optimals.  While there MAY be appropriate administrative or societal disapprovals of those occurrences, criminality should not be a consideration.

So there’s the essence of my argument and we may not be as far apart as thought.  However, if you are asserting that there is ALWAYS at least subtle coercion on the part of the older one taking place when consensual sex happens before some artificial and arbitrary age, we will have to disagree!